Tales of The City | The Dinner Party | Netflix

Tales of The City | The Dinner Party | Netflix


What about Peru? Oh.
Oh my god, right? We– we are going
there next month. Machu Picchu,
Cusco, Lima– Are you doing the…
what’s it called? The Inca trail. Yes, and Sacred valley. That sounds amazing. Can you believe this
one has never been to Peru. Isn’t it crazy. The best thing about
Machu Picchu, the sherpas. Oh my god, yeah. it’s their beautiful calves. When you’re on the trail, you
just stare at those gorgeous legs. You will not fall off the cliff. I thought the sherpas
carried you up the mountain. Well, if that were an upgrade,
this one would definitely take it. Just be like, “Pedro, Jorge,
whatever, I need to be carried.” Wait, wait, wait, wait! Remember last year when
ken and I were in Mexico city with Steve and Phil? Oh, oh, and their weird
friend, what was his name? I know who you’re
talking about. He told us about
this club down there, We’re out walking
around this totally Sketchy part of Mexico
City, I mean, it’s really late, And we finally
think we found it. You have to
ring a doorbell. We go in and…
oh my god, It’s full of trannies! Oh! To the rafters. It’s a tranny club,
a Mexican tranny club. So of course
they let you in. I don’t think that
we use that word. Sorry? Uh… Um… Tranny. It’s offensive, and… and
using it to insult each other, That’s– that’s
really offensive, so… Does anyone
want more wine? -Please.
-Yeah. I’m sorry. I just don’t really
appreciate– Babe… …That we have to be policed. At a fucking
gay dinner party. Thank you, exactly. Is this a bordeaux? A bunch of fags
bullshitting around a table. Probably doesn’t like
the word “fag” either. Weren’t we just talking
about Machu Picchu? We were. back to that,
just for a minute. I mean, look, you can call
yourself whatever you want, man But, I just think it’s important
to call other people What they want
to be called. That’s the least
that we can do. Babe,
I think we get it. Why don’t we do dessert
in the other room? Let’s go. Can i ask you something? Why is your generation
obsessed with labels? Obsessed. Because… What you call
someone is important. It’s about… It’s about dignity,
it’s about visibility. Okay. I think we owe
that to people. Especially when you’re
coming from a place of privilege. So you look at me,
and you see what? A rich, white man? Is that what you mean?
Is that my privilege? Yeah.
Yes. You are. Guys, guys,
I don’t think– Let me tell you something
about dignity and visibility. How old are you? I’m 28. He’s 28. Okay. Any so-called privilege
that we happen to enjoy At this moment was won. Okay? And by that I mean
clawed, tooth and nail. From a society that didn’t
give two shits if we lived or died, and indeed
did not care… When all our
friends started to die. When I was 28, I wasn’t
going to fucking dinner parties, I was going
to funerals. Three or four a week,
all of us were. I…
understand that, I do– Oh, you do,
really? Why? Because you saw
Angels in America? Fuck that. Fuck that.
You have no idea. This world that
you get to live in, with your safe spaces,
and your intersectionalities– And
gay marriage. Fucking
without condoms. All of it. This entitlement
you now have to dignity
and visibility as a gay person… Do you even know
where that came from? Do you know who
built that world? Do you know the
cost of that progress? No,
of course not. Because it would be more than
your generation could ever bare to
comprehend. So if a bunch of old queens
wanna sit around a table and use the
word “tranny”… I will not be told off by
someone who wasn’t fucking there. Excuse me. Ben. No, you don’t
get to talk to me. Not when they’re
saying that shit, Michael. Racist,
transphobic bullshit, and you
just sit there. You don’t get
to talk to me now. -I’m sorry.
-No, no! “A society that doesn’t
care whether we live or die.” Really? Really? You’re gonna say
that to me, a black man? Like I don’t know
how that feels? I didn’t know
what to do. How about
defending me? How– how about not
leaving me totally alone after inviting me to the
fucking gay version of Get Out?

75 thoughts on “Tales of The City | The Dinner Party | Netflix

  1. Generation X and the tail-end Baby Boom fought in the trenches, and we lost so many. But the Millennial also has a point. We did fight for personhood and for dignity.

    I'm reminded of what Kipling wrote: "Mock not the boar in his lair."

  2. I'm surprised he didn't bring up that a black trans woman threw the first brick at the Stonewall riots and really started Pride. That woulda shut those assholes up.

  3. This scene really stirred me up. Like… IS there a right or wrong? Is it all subjective? How do (and should) we have a conversation about this?

    I personally try to respect others' opinions and try not to disrespect them but…this?

    thoughts…thoughts

  4. You don't earn the right to marginalize a different group of people because you persevered through hardships.

  5. I'm a 30-year-old white gay guy who's never faced discrimination or homophobia at the levels these old people have , I know that if it weren't for them fighting and giving their lives for our rights, my generation and the newest one wouldn't have had the freedom we have today. But that does not give them or anyone the right to do what was done to them. That is not why they fought for for so many decades.
    And yes, he is a privileged man who is unaware of the extent of said privilege.

  6. he is right though. the way they laughed and expressed "disappointment" meant that joke was mean spirited. anyway, I like the way he intervened: quiet, polite but undeterred when they tried to bully him into silence. anyway, no amount of personal tragedy gives you a pass for being an asshole. I don't understand why after fighting so hard for their own recognition and dignity, those old gay men couldn't afford the same to trans people (or travestites, I'm not sure). they did sound like a bunch of assholes jocks in a locker room 🤷🏾‍♀️

  7. I don’t know why most gay men think that they are superior to people in the Transgender community’s. Them as gay men are allowed to live as their true self so why can’t Transgender people also live their true self. It pains me whenever I hear gay men throwing shades at the Transgender community. We are all under the same umbrella and also in the same boat so why all the hate and negativity???😡

  8. Honestly, I understand where Ben is coming from, what he may not realise is that, every community, race and gender do this, they all talk about the others when they're with their own, sad but true ! 😔

  9. Black trans women were many of the brave individuals who paved the road for queer rights. They don’t deserve to be marginalized and their experiences don’t deserve to be trivialized. As a white baby gay I recognize my privilege and always strive to respect the hardships of those less fortunate than I.

  10. Just because you get to thrive and earned the rights you have fought for decades ago doesnt mean you have to dismiss mindfulness towards those who are still fighting for their rights at the moment. That is the point Millenials are making, we ain't free until ALL of us are free. So yes check your white privilege at the door and fight for racial and trans equity and equality, point blank period.

  11. show was amazing! This scene was the highlight for me (gay Get Out lol). Ben was 100% right on all accounts though (love him). Just because you've gone through loss, turmoil, and anguish, doesn't give you the right to disrespect and devalue anyone. As a millennial myself (I'm 28), I get tired of hearing the older generation complain about us as if we don't understand what's going on…everyone wants to talk shit about millennials until they need help with their computer smh

  12. This is why I DO NOT go to any gay function especially in NYC with a bunch of WHITES this is EXACTLY how QUEENS ACT. Entitled with no regard and RESPECT for anyone.

  13. This scene felt to real to the point that I wonder how different those men were when they cut the scene. How many of us non-GWM have dealt with shit like this. I know I have.

  14. It is the first thing recently liberated oppressed people do…oppress others…trying to be above…

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  16. I super appreciate this dynamic being portrayed on TV – I have seen this play out in real life with older white gay men who do not understand what it means to be intersectional and truly inclusive – they think "tongue and cheek" comments towards trans people or people of color that deny their humanity is okay because they are gay or belong to one marginalized community and seems too oblivious to the fact that they are perpetuating toxic masculinity and white supremacy…

  17. The beautiful thing about this scene is both sides have a point. I did not grow up during the AIDS epidemic, so I cannot empathize with what the LGBT+ community went through. I've only heard/read how terrible it was, how many people died. BUT these characters DO still have rich white male privilege. They are still being racist, they are still being transphobic.

  18. I respect the battles the last two generations have fought for however baby boomers are the whiniest generation. They are bitter and can’t accept the world has changed, a change they fought for. We Millennials have it easy both cultural and technological but there are plenty of civil right battles out there to fights women’s right, LGBT rights, immigrant rights.

    How about instead crying and complaining about my generation you join us and accept that it isn’t 1989 anymore.

  19. essentially what the writers are convaying and the actors are portraying very well by the way is that both sides are hurt and have and had theyre cross to bare also both doesnt know the reality of the other and the inability to have the uncomfortable conversation (wrong labels and hall you cant have an honest conversation in a safe space) has greated a divide that gets biggers with the lost art of conversation

  20. Never watched this show before but i will start. This scene was great at highlighting black/brown men's reality that no matter your label a white man is always valued more in this society. It is particularly sad for white gay to ignore the struggles of minorities when they have faced discrimination themselves, but unlike sexual orientation race cannot be hidden. To ignore your privilege as a white person is to essentially say that you are ok with the injustices people of color face.

  21. Difficult one. Firstly, Ben is right, the word is offensive. However, these men also have a point. So who is right who is wrong here? Are they both right? Surely it's about intent, and about the situation the term is used in.

  22. I would avoid this crowd to start with been there done that it was never pleasant the judging and comparing and opinions and pretending etc …
    I as a ''60 year old gay white male'' would have slapped this old bitch silly back to reality and tell her to stop renting in pity city and move back in the real life!

  23. These old queens are the same ones that failed to come out of the closet back in the 60s and 70s (when a lot of the rest of us took that risk) and stayed in their safe little private piano bars like spoiled brats. A LOT of us actually fought for the rights we won, took actual risks, lost family, friends, homes, and livelihoods while these old farts kept their mouths, and their closet doors shut tight. For them to sit around a table and brag in 2019 about the how they clawed rights for the next generation to enjoy is a hideous lie. Most of them wouldn't even make a financial contribution. Yes, some of us did actually fight, and lost while these old white boys hid out and enjoyed the sexual liberation. Anyone that actually fought for gay rights in the 70s and beyond would never preach to a 20-something young gay man (and ganging up on him while they're at it) about whey they don't have to be politically correct now. These parasites have always been a (sad) part of our history, but it's as revolting as ever to listen to them gang up on and bully a younger man at dinner table. Thugs is what they are; I hope that was the point of the scene.

  24. Brilliant scene by the way. Finally you get to hear from the truly marginalized. You know, the voices of those who died from AIDS.

  25. Old white gays here think that their gayness and surviving the AIDS epidemic gives them an excuse (and the entitlement, and the audacity) to be racist and transphobic.

    While it may not be as easy for white gays to empathize with people of colour, or understand race issues, you would think that they would have an easier time understanding trans issues and caring about trans folks, since Gay and Trans history are so closely intertwined.

  26. It's almost like a new version of what Michael Tolliver went through at the dinner Jon took him to in the first "Tales…" Fascinating!!

  27. Easter Egg: Stephen Spinella, who references Angels in America actually played Prior Walter during its original Broadway run and won a Tony Award for his performance.

  28. At this time in history as a gay Canadian it is very easy for me and I consider myself privileged but that was not always the case. At 17 (in the 1970s) I was tossed out of my home for being gay and experienced a lot of physical violence. Back in the 80s I knew lots of people that wanted gays to die and that was frequently mentioned in discussions about the AIDS epidemic. Back then you couldn't even put "gay" in the phone book and workplace and housing discrimination was very common . It's difficult for a young person to understand the intensity of oppression that gays used to experience. The current dismissiveness of that experience is painful and makes many old gays bitter. This is no excuse for racism or transphobia and those old guys were entitled jerks but I do encourage young gays to reflect on their "this time in history" privilege. I also think gays with the privilege of being alive in this time period (yes that includes me) have a responsibility to try to help those less fortunate.

  29. This debate is powerful precisely because it's provocatively unwinnable. The language police must necessarily shame those who do not abide their strict codes since shame is their only tool. This in turn entails increasingly arcane and academic tweaking of standards that only the pure and virtuous can master. Speaking as an old gay man, I find this development alarming because human nature will not be legislated by earnest young purists. A society of mutual respect and kindness is a great human achievement, but shaming is neither respectful nor kind. Politicized language is by its very nature totalitarian. Human beings will resist its authority passively if not passionately.

  30. I first thought comments were praising Ben's attitude towards transphobia. I was happy. However I now see that they don't! Trans people have the highest ratios of suicide, being the victim of a murder among lgbt+. No past trauma or injustice can be an excuse for using transphobic language.
    And as I see everyone here is about "you don't get to talk about it you didn't go through 60s" I feel obliged to state that I am a non-cisstraight person born and raised in a Muslim country where I've been physically and verbaly assaulted on a regular basis, lost more than a few trans friends and acquaintances through suicide and transphobic murders, have been exposed to merciless police brutality in many of our lgbti+ protests and pride walk attempts (actually it is currently strictly illegal in my city to gather for a purpose related to lgbti+ issues).

    And one final thing: if I were Michael's partner, we'd be done at this table, I can't believe their relationship prevailed this.

  31. Honestly because you're been there doesn't mean you have right to insulting another people but you completely jerk and asshole

  32. And in the end the millennial plays the Oppressed Pokémon card “I am more oppressed than you, you cannot say shit to me”. This world is doomed.

  33. This was by far the best scene in this series, imo. No offense, but I found all the scenes with the younger generation tedious and rather twee. And the tendency of the TOTC to dwell on melodramatic plot twists got old really fast in all the earlier series. I wish they would have featured this cast of out gay actors from the 80s and 90s more regularly in the story line. Or maybe a spin off is in order. There's a great subject here that needs to be explored more–the ravages of AIDS on the older generation of gay men so often invisible in gay culture and the culture at large living in a world that has already forgotten them and moved on. It's so great to see Stephen Spinella, Bryan Batt, Dan Butler, and Malcolm Gets acting together. These guys need to take their show on the road.

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